Crab defense

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by dmt, May 6, 2020.


  1. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    What are some of the advantages and disadvantages of the cross arm/ crab defense? Used famously by Norton, Witherspoon and comeback Foreman

    I wonder why more fighters (especially heavyweights now days) don't use it.

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  2. zadfrak

    zadfrak Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Style is open for left hooks. It is also far more effective going forward than retreating or circling. And the fighter needs some real good boxing radar to catch and deflect right hands with that shoulder. Also needs to bend low and only offer the top of his head....never upright. So it takes a lot of conditioning to pull off this style. And
    I really do not like it against southpaws whatsoever.

    Once guys tire with that defense, troubles get magnified.
     
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  3. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    Advantages:

    unless you hit as hard as King Kong, a straight punch toward a properly done cross arm block isn't going to accomplish anything. Crabs have a very hard exterior and the guard isn't just called that because of the way the arms are held, it is not easy to land a clean hit. Your opponent may even end up hurting their hands landing on an elbow, top of the skull, shoulder, or fist as you bring up the guard up or shift around with it to deflect blows like a tough ancient shield. When used by a boxer with good eye sight and head movement it can be extremely difficult to land anything, let alone do any damage. Add in good footwork and pivoting ability it can make you a mobile fortress with nigh impenetrable walls. A prime Witherspoon was very hard to hit due to having all these advantages. The slick and cunning Moore had all sorts of traps prepared, like a soldier setting up land mines and booby traps to catch opponents off guard setting up shots while rolling with them and discouraging opponents with a tight guard, sometimes intentionally blocking with the bony parts of his arms. An iron chinned slugger like Foreman benefited greatly from it as he lacked fancy footwork and head movement so this made him even harder to damage while also allowing him to create openings as his huge arms and shoulders would shield him from almost anything and he could then punish an unsafe blow.

    On offense, the cross arm block was great for guys who liked to dig in to the body. Shifting weight to the left generated momentum for a powerful left hook to the body. It could also set up nasty left uppercuts or overhand rights as your hands are already in this position and one simply needs to see an opening and counter. The jab comes up from the waist at an odd angle and Norton was able to time a fast boxer like Ali with his own jab despite being the slower boxer firing from an odd stance. He was also good at throwing nasty hooks upstairs.

    Disadvantages:

    The strong tight guard is good at deflecting single shots or fending off one shot at a time, but it can leave you open to combinations. A skilled fighter can find the small gaps and land there. If you're fast enough you can slip a straight jab or right in the small gap between arms. With good timing and hand speed you can land hooks before the opponent has a chance to deflect with their right hand.

    The guard isn't always able to deal with constant changes in elevation. A fighter who is able to constantly shift between body and head mid combination or threaten with feints may have an easy time landing. If you are relatively slow of foot or hand you can become a sitting duck as you aren't able to put the guard in the correct position in time.

    A common weakness ive seen in fighters using this guard is that it isn't as effective as a defensive tool while fighting on the outside or while using lateral movement. Because you need to lean forward a bit and bring both arms together almost as if you are crossing them over, you are in a bad position to use a stick and move or outside game plan. A jab from long range will be seen from a mile away and so will any quick flurries. It is better from close or mid range used by guys who have decent power and come forward aggressively Anatomically, if you have very thin bony arms or short stubby arms the guard will not be as effective as it'll leave big obvious gaps that the opponent can find. You can also forget about any fancy fast footwork while holding this position as you are leaning forward awkwardly with both hands out and your balance would become horrible.
     
  4. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Excellent. Very educational. Thanks for that breakdown, GCC.
     
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  5. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Great breakdown by Glass City Cobra. Nothing to add.
     
  6. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    Amazing post. Thanks

    I have a question: how hard is it to throw a conventional right hand from this position? I am thinking about joining a boxing gym once lock downs are over, and in the meanwhile i am practicing by myself, and it seems like throwing a conventional right hand is really hard from this position. Of course i am only shadow boxing but still seems quite tough.
     
  7. lloydturnip

    lloydturnip Well-Known Member Full Member

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    An old-fashioned but effective method. I use a version of it as I'm old and fat at the gym I go to.the young lads think it's weird !.
     
  8. DJN16

    DJN16 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Glass city cobra said it best.

    I'll basically say if you don't have good reflexes and a chin, don't use it.
     
  9. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    I've used it and felt very comfortable with it. Yes it's true your more open to the hook but if your adept at getting under it your good but that's a risk you'll have to weigh. Very comfortable for me adleast although mine was a little more hybrid.
     
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  10. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Paulino Uzcudun is a good example of a crab like defense and offense.

    You need a certain body type to pull it off correctly. Preferably a short torso, larger arms, shoulders that bubble upwards, and a shorter neck.

    Best combined with hooks and uppercuts, not ideal for jabbing or a straight right / left.

    Tall fighters don't make good crabs, shorter fighters can.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
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  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    That was your best post. What is the difference between a Philly Shell and the Crab if any? I agree Witherspoon had a very under rated defense.
     
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  12. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Good example, Paulino was quite decent defensively from what I've seen.
     
  13. escudo

    escudo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You can't really from the pure crab position aside from jab basically. However if you lean over to your right foot the right hook flows well as you transfer your weight to the left in a square stance. If you can blade your stance for just a moment a "Philly Shell" position offers more leverage for that straight right. Archie Moore switched between them constantly to cover the deficits in both.
     
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  14. escudo

    escudo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Crab is a square on Philly shell with horizontal arms.
     
  15. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    George Foreman utilizes this defense well in his comeback but not in his first career. A rare instance in which an aged veteran was able to “ change “ his style successfully and be effective.