Lennox Lewis looked pretty bad in Gary Mason fight

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Big Ukrainian, Jan 29, 2016.


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  1. Big Ukrainian

    Big Ukrainian Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Just watched the fight and was surprised how raw and unpolished Lennox looked back then.

    Poor balance, telegraphed jab, wide punches, very average footwork, way too many holes in defence.

    On the other hand, great physical attributes - power, speed, size.

    Under Pepe Correa it was all physique, however, he looked better vs Tucker and Bruno (an of course Ruddock) than in Mason fight.

    Manny Steward did actually a great job - he made Lennox a much more skilled boxer in almost every way.

    Once Steward started working with Lennox in 1995, he said the first thing needed to be improved is his balance, then his jab, too.

    And we all know also Manny improved his footwork, defence and taught him how to clinch effectively.
     
    Big Ukrainian, Jan 29, 2016
    Big Ukrainian, Jan 29, 2016
    #1
  2. UFC2015

    UFC2015 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Emanuel steward was an expert trainer for tall fighters
     
    UFC2015, Jan 29, 2016
    UFC2015, Jan 29, 2016
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  3. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    But it was not rocket science. Lewis already knew how to do those things, Lennox was a two time Olympian. Manny just had him practice more on what he liked to see him do.

    Before Manny ever worked with Lewis there was always flashes of fluency between the clumsy stuff and (perhaps because he was younger) sharper punching from Lewis. I dont think the level of coordination shown in the Ruddock fight was ever reproduced. Pepe worked with Lewis on that fight.

    Lennox always looked like he was torn between two styles. Especially in long difficult fights. A powerhouse or a boxer, because he could do both. this was mainly because Lennox was making the transition from so many years under the three round tournaments where he could be one or the other and I dont think he ever completely combined both styles successfully in the pros. Although he threw correct punches, There was always something disjointed about him. Manny worked harder in combining the two styles though.
     
    choklab, Jan 29, 2016
    choklab, Jan 29, 2016
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  4. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    have you seen the Mavrovic fight?
     
    choklab, Jan 29, 2016
    choklab, Jan 29, 2016
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  5. turnip

    turnip Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Mason was 35_0 when lewis beat him Lennox was a rookie beating gary was a great performance .Mason was a very dangerous fighter would have beaten all the stiffs that vlad beat and maybe vlad as well .RIP champ.
     
    turnip, Jan 30, 2016
    turnip, Jan 30, 2016
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  6. Big Ukrainian

    Big Ukrainian Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No. What are your thoughts about Mavrovic fight?
     
    Big Ukrainian, Jan 30, 2016
    Big Ukrainian, Jan 30, 2016
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  7. Big Ukrainian

    Big Ukrainian Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    But Mason was coming off detached retina, and truth to be told, he was slower than 50 y.o. George Foreman.

    Lewis won solely on the speed/size advantage, Mason won few rounds and landed at will (once again Lewis so-called 'glass' chin took good shots, heh).

    Mason had an awful cut and his eye was completely shut, but he was very game and competitive despite Lewis having significant edge in power, size and speed.
     
    Big Ukrainian, Jan 30, 2016
    Big Ukrainian, Jan 30, 2016
    #7
  8. turnip

    turnip Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Mason had good hand speed and could hit .his chin was rock .can you imagine a raw prospect today taking On someone as dangerous rember Lewis was green and untested.plenty of pundits picked mason to win.
     
    turnip, Jan 30, 2016
    turnip, Jan 30, 2016
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  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I have to agree with turnip. I don't think he looked bad at all. I think he looked very different and far less polished, yes, but - Gary Mason was an excellent fighter and Lewis was pretty green. I thought he looked good. It was Lewis's fifteenth fight and Mason was 35-0!

    Let's compare that to what some other really big heavies were doing.

    Jess Willard: Sailor White, 14-9
    Buddy Baer: Babe Hunt 72-17-5, Loss
    Primo Carnera: Herman Jaspers, 5-1-1
    Rid**** Bowe: Mike Robinson 4-5-1
    Wlad Klitschko: Jerry Halstead 84-18-1, on a three fight losing streak
    Vitali Klitschko: Marcus Rhode 20-7

    Apart from Bowe and Vitali, there's a very good chance all these guys would have lost to Mason, in my opinion, had they taken that fight at that stage of their careers.
     
    McGrain, Jan 30, 2016
    McGrain, Jan 30, 2016
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  10. foreman&dempsey

    foreman&dempsey Boxing Addict banned

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    Agreed. Foreman said that lewis did remember him a mix between a prime ali
    And a young foreman
     
    foreman&dempsey, Jan 30, 2016
    foreman&dempsey, Jan 30, 2016
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  11. Big Ukrainian

    Big Ukrainian Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'm not saying it was a bad win because it was actually very good :)

    But Lennox made so many mistakes in that fight and he was really lucky that he cut Mason. If that cut hasnt happened the fight would've gone distance as Mason had pretty good chin.

    Lewis also acted like pu'nk when he pushed Mason after losing 3rd round.

    Mason landed at will in rounds 2-4 and if he hit as hard as McCall the fight would be over before 4th round.
     
    Big Ukrainian, Jan 30, 2016
    Big Ukrainian, Jan 30, 2016
    #11
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I just think you're being absurdly hard on a prospect. Of course if he fought a prime McCall at that point in his career he would have been KO'd. But you see the type of learning fights most pros are engaging in at this point in their careers.

    I would say that of the guys of whom film is readily available, not many great heavies look better than Lewis at this point of their careers, all be it for some of the reasons you mention.

    Here's Ali-Daniels, though

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9xuGP6k9lM

    However good Ali looks, if Daniels hit as hard as Cooper, I think ALi would have been KO'd...
     
    McGrain, Jan 30, 2016
    McGrain, Jan 30, 2016
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  13. Big Ukrainian

    Big Ukrainian Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Yes, but on the other hand Lennox was 25, not 20 like Ali.

    Why I started this thread because I've read earlier how easily Lennox destroyed Gary Mason and how good he looked doing it.

    And what I saw was opposite to what I've read.

    Fight was very competitive, Mason won few rounds and wasn't dominated at all. In fact, the fight was stopped when they traded the punches.

    And Mason showed all Lewis' flaws (and there were many then - bad defence, bad balance, wild punches, not so-effective jab).

    Someone tries to argue that Lewis in 91 was as good as he was in 97-01.

    But he was far, far worse in every way besides power and speed.
     
    Big Ukrainian, Jan 30, 2016
    Big Ukrainian, Jan 30, 2016
    #13
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Why does that matter? Pro experience is pro experience. You might make the case that because Lewis had more amateur experience he should look better as a pro, but both were extremely experienced as ams.

    Experience is experience. It doesn't matter if you're twenty or forty, except to say the younger fighter should be quicker.

    Well the people you heard that from are correct to a point. Certainly Lewis looked better than the best heavyweight prospect in the world currently did, in a similar fight, in Joshua-Whyte. Joshua was nearly stopped. Lewis was pretty dominant and for that stage of his career did indeed look like a bit of a world-beater.

    Joshua has better co-ordination but nearly got stopped. Lewis was much more superior but looked less co-ordinated. I know what i'd rather have in a fighter I was handling as a trainer, and what i'd rather see as a fan of that fighter.

    YOU think his defence was bad for 14-0? I just don't see what it is you are saying here. You seem to want to compare 14-0 Lewis to his future prime self ("not so effective jab")? Ok - but I'd say that stands for every fighter in history.
     
    McGrain, Jan 30, 2016
    McGrain, Jan 30, 2016
    #14
  15. Big Ukrainian

    Big Ukrainian Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I actually think 14-0 Joshua looked MORE skilled than 14-0 Lennox.

    Lewis had better speed, that's obvious.

    Joshua has better balance, that's obvious, too. Better uppercut than THAT Lewis. Better accuracy. He got caught with clean punches far less times than Lennox.

    Don't know how to compare Whyte and Mason

    Also, I had Lewis-Mason 3-3 going into 7th, maybe 3-2-1, Joshua - Whyte - 4-2.

    And Lennox never was close to drop or seriously hurt Mason (then again, Mason could've had better chin than Whyte).

    If we suppose that Mason and Whyte are comparable opponents (don't know if its true) then Joshua looked certainly better for me.
     
    Big Ukrainian, Jan 30, 2016
    Big Ukrainian, Jan 30, 2016
    #15
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