Lennox never seemed to be rated so highly in real time DURING his career.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Markus.C.65, Jun 10, 2024.


  1. Markus.C.65

    Markus.C.65 Member Full Member

    142
    199
    Jun 8, 2024
    I was talking to my son about Lennox Lewis' career and to his surprise I told him that DURING his career, he often didn't get recognized as a great fighter and for much of it , wasn't even seen as the best HW fighter around.
    At various times during his career , that accolade seemed to be given to Tyson, Bowe or Holyfield. Lewis eventually outlasted them all and finally got his recognition but despite a long list of good/very good and even excellent wins , it took a long time before he gained the status he has now.
    For much of his career he had many doubters and critics.
    Is my memory of this a fair reflection of events as they happened ?
     
    Smokin Bert, Levook, Bokaj and 5 others like this.
  2. bolo specialist

    bolo specialist Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,542
    6,989
    Jun 10, 2024
    I would say that except for within the UK, your recollection is correct. In the States, he definitely faced an uphill battle for universal respect. Now he's not only universally recognized as an ATG, but I've even heard multiple people suggest that he's a candidate for best HW ever, something that would've seemed outlandish in the States while he was still active.
     
    Smokin Bert, Bokaj, Paul McB and 3 others like this.
  3. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    22,482
    24,585
    Jun 26, 2009
    I’d say that’s about how it is for every fighter.

    People didn’t stand up and proclaim Larry Holmes as one of the top heavyweights ever while he was champ … he labored in Ali’s shadow and could never quite get out from under it.

    People weren’t saying ‘Ray Robinson is the P4P greatest ever’ while he was around, or at least not during the vast majority of his career nor proclaiming it loudly to get others to see it.

    Harry Greb wasn’t often proclaimed one of the very best ever — maybe even THE best — really until decades after his career. Maybe some mentions here or there, but find the lists from the top experts and pundits for the next generation or two and there’s maybe a nod here and there that he was really good, but not OMG GOAT.

    Ezzard Charles for sure wasn’t appreciated during his time. He wasn’t Joe Louis and he toiled in relative obscurity before winning the title as what most considered more of an interim champion.

    It’s the way of the world. Today that has been flipped on its ear — EVERYBODY is the GOAT as soon as they do something good. Tom Brady was the GOAT QB … and then Patrick Mahomes was about the time Tom rode off into the sunset. There are people who currently argue that a guy with like a 17-3 record (Loma) is an ATG, lol. A musician can have one hit and someone will tell you how he’s already greater than Prince and Michael Jackson and the Beatles all rolled into one.

    We live in the days of hype and glory, but until more recently a fighter’s career needed to marinate for a while before we realize what we had.
     
    Smokin Bert, KO KIDD, Levook and 9 others like this.
  4. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,841
    8,445
    Aug 15, 2018
    He got his respect at the end. Unfortunate for Lewis he didn’t get a shot at Bowe or young Holy or Tyson. My opinion he was avoided. Also bad for his legacy was losing to two inferior opponents. Although he did avenge those losses it hurts him all time. I have him number 3 usually behind Louis and Ali. He was a scary individual when motivated
     
  5. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    22,482
    24,585
    Jun 26, 2009
    Mike Tyson threw a belt in the trash rather than fight him when Lennox was his mandatory.

    For some reason, Mike never much gets criticized for this while other fighters are burned at the stake.
     
  6. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,669
    7,623
    Dec 31, 2009
    I would say that even in the UK recognition was slow. He had the shadow of Frank Bruno and his Canadian background to overcome. The universal recognition as a strong champion really didn’t get there until after the Holyfield fights.
     
  7. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,841
    8,445
    Aug 15, 2018
    Maybe my memory deceived me thought that was Bowe who threw it out?
     
    shottylad, cuchulain and Seamus like this.
  8. AwardedSteak863

    AwardedSteak863 Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,739
    10,467
    Aug 16, 2018
    I remember it the same way especially after his shocking loss to McCall. It took year's for him to get thought of the same way that Evander and Bowe were but now that time has past, it is very clear that he was the cream of the crop of that unbelievable good 90's era.
     
    Markus.C.65 likes this.
  9. bolo specialist

    bolo specialist Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,542
    6,989
    Jun 10, 2024
    Yes, it was Bowe who publicly threw the belt in the trash. IIRC, Tyson did pay him step-aside money so he could defend his titles against Holyfield instead.
     
    Gazelle Punch likes this.
  10. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    15,229
    8,434
    Oct 8, 2013
    Yes you are correct. During the 1990s especially the first half of the decade Lewis was not regarded as close to the big 3, Tyson, Bowe, Holyfield.
    He was awarded the wbc belt after Bowe made a public display of tossing the belt into the trash. In hindsight this appears to be a blatant duck but the American public at the time had little interest in seeing Bowe vs Lewis. Everyone wanted Bowe vs Holyfield - and eventually that winner to face the incarcerated Tyson upon release. Lewis did himself no favors when he shockingly got bombed out by a single punch by career sparring partner (to that point in time) Oliver McCall. Everyone that was a fan of Bowe and most of the media - used that moment to justify Bowe trashing the wbc belt in the first place. They viewed Lewis as just another in a long line of horizontal British heavyweights. That was the American centric view.
    Then as Lewis slowly rebuilt from the loss, he gets another HBO televised card on night of the heavyweights. A showcase of heavyweights at the crossroads of their career. This time To face Ray Mercer. A Ray Mercer coming off a competitive but clear loss to Holyfield, where he was dropped by Holyfield. I don’t know the weights but Mercer was clearly much more fit for the Holyfield bout than he showed up for Lewis. However despite not being in the great shape he was for Holyfield he gave Lewis a hell of a fight. I myself scored the fight a draw when I watched it and my friends who were in attendance that night all felt Mercer deserved the fight. In subsequent years I felt a draw or a Lewis win was ok. I don’t believe Mercer took 6 rounds for the win. The fight was pretty much controlled by Mercer early and then his lack of preparation and stamina allowed Lewis to take the back end rounds. It’s clearly a fight of two halves. Years later I spoke to Mercer about the fight and I told him you deserved a draw and he said hell no, I won that fight it was in New York come on. You think I’d get that call in London. I understood his point.
    After the Mercer bout where Lewis failed to impress despite it being an action fight, he would go on to avenge the Mccall loss, in a bout that never should have taken place. Add a win over the unheralded Akinwande and It’s not up until his fight with Golota - whom in the interim despite losing both fights with Bowe and retiring Bowe, is now viewed as a top dog in the division. It’s at this point now that Lewis’s career begins to gain steam stateside. Bowe is gone, and Tyson has been vanquished by Holyfield. Lewis’s career begins to really rise at age 32. He then goes on to defeat a good handful of heavyweights in big HBO marketed fights. Golota, Briggs, Tua, Holyfield, before the Vitali bout. That fight turns out to be Lewis’s last and while the result is great I always felt Lewis should have granted the rematch. The fight was highly entertaining and HBO and the public wanted to see them fight again.
     
  11. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    59,123
    42,011
    Feb 11, 2005
    Lewis was painted as the typical British horizontal heavyweight by the ossified US boxing media who were too busy chewing on their collective cigar to see the future coming. As the 90's dragged on he was recognized as the best of his generation despite his couple well known setbacks.
     
    cross_trainer and Terror like this.
  12. Terror

    Terror free smoke Full Member

    3,129
    1,471
    Mar 22, 2010
    I always felt Lennox was more disliked than disrespected. And historical perspective is a hell of a thing too. A lot of Lennox's resume has grown over the years, while that of his contemporaries such as Riddick 'The Belt Bucketer' Bowe have withered considerably. That being said, I didn't appreciate his personality at the time because it didn't purport aggression or entertainment. I was pretty young. Lennox was one of my first least favorite fighters. I now have him #2 all time above Holmes and Louis. Times change. People change.

    From mid 1997 until his retirement he was probably the best guy, but it took him until 1999 beating Holyfield in the draw for me to really kick Holyfield off the spot he had earned by beating Tyson. While Lewis had to wait his turn to capture the imagination of the public, he was certainly producing the best caliber of boxing during the late 1990s. People needed to see Tyson-Holyfield since 1990, and alongside Foreman's comeback and the Bowe-Holyfield series, Lennox felt lost in the mix (at least as an American boxing fan).

    In retrospect, Lewis had been the best for some years by that point, especially after beating Golota and Briggs back to back.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2024
  13. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    22,482
    24,585
    Jun 26, 2009
    Wrong. He gave it up. Lewis fought for the vacant WBC. No step-aside, just binned it.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/tyson-gives-up-heavyweight-title-1365014.html

    Could link the New York Times and others, but they were paywalled. All same date range in 1996. This definitely happened.
     
    Markus.C.65 and robert ungurean like this.
  14. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    22,482
    24,585
    Jun 26, 2009
    Tyson vacated the WBC belt in 1996 rather than face his No. 1 contender, Lennox Lewis. I linked a story in the post above.
     
  15. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,841
    8,445
    Aug 15, 2018
    I knew that but it was Bowe who threw the belt in the trash. But that still reinforces the point that he was avoided.