Muhammad Ali's title reign from 1964-1967

It depends which way you look, i think floyd is trying this tactic and he aint even being asked to go to iraq

 

It was a solid title reign but some things should be noted.............Williams was 100% shot literally and figurativley when he fought ali, and folley was very softer physically and cosiderable past his prime by 1967. Patterson was in his prime, but fought the fight with a horrible back injury very noticeable on film, he shouldnt have been allowed in the ring that night.



All in All ali fought most of the ranked guys whether they were at their best or not, and deserves credit. Terell was a very credible unification win, chuvalo was a top guy, liston was still dangerous in 64, and patterson would go on to accomplish great things after the ali loss

 

If Ali had retired in 67, would he be ranked higher than Tyson?

 

Yep, say until 1989. I'd say Tysons defences were against (marginally) more impressive opposition than Alis.

 

I'm a massive Ali fan but if the two fighters had retired in 67 and 89 then I'd have to give it to Tyson on merit. Nobody could have guessed what Ali was capable of......

 

If you're going to make a comparison of title reigns you can hardly say that Tyson's reign started with defeating Berbick. Berbick would not have been a champion if there had been a unified title, but merely a contender. Ali/Clay on the other hand went through several ranked contenders before beating the undisputed champion. Tyson's fights up until his unification of the title should therfore be seen as him earning a title shot, and not until he beat Tucker and unified the title should he be viewed as HW-champion. That leaves him with six defenses to Ali's nine.

To answer the question I feel that there would be great discrepancy to how Ali was seen today if not for the comeback. Some would have him in their top 5, and even say that he was the greatest but that he just never got the chance to really prove it. Others would have him lower, often not even in their top 10. They would point to his stylistic flaws, say that Liston was well past his prime or took a dive, and also point out things such as Patterson's back injury, Williams being shot and Folley being aging.

But if Ali never had come back, I feel personally feel that his record still would beat Dempsey´s, for example.

 

Patterson had been twice blown out by Liston.

Chuvalo didn't deserve a shot at the world's championship.

How good were Cooper, London and Mildenberger ?

Cleveland Williams was damaged goods. I guess these were the best available.
Folley was good, Terrell was good.

Ali was dominant and busy.

 

I think Ali may make the lower top ten.

Louis, Marciano, Holmes perhaps, Jeff, and Jack Johnson would have strong cases to be rank over Ali. I take a win over Walcott or Charles in regards to Marciano vs Ali's Williams and Folly's any day, and more so since they were past there primes.

Ali would still be top ten, but he would not get that God hood he has today. The win over Foreman made that possible.

 

Williams was 20-1-1, including:

1 loss coming to a Terrell SD,
A KO win over Terrell
A draw with Machen

Underrated win? I know hes past prime, but he was still a contender

 

Let' see now, which records would surpass Ali's 29-0 record? Louis and Holmes definitely, probably Johnson, Marciano and Lewis as well. Not Dempsey or Jeffries IMO, neither Tyson, Frazier or Holyfield. When it comes to Foreman, it's hard to say how his career would have evolved if not for Zaire. He might well have dominated for a long time, maybe been dethroned by Holmes, which would have made Holmes record even more impressive.

So Ali's record would still have given him a place in the top 7 IMO, and many (myself included) would give him the benefit of a doubt due to his career being cut short, and place him higher.

 

if he didn't have the the exile i think he could have beaten Louis 25 defences record. He would have remained on top from 67 to atleast 1970. How many successful defences could he have in 3 years. From March 66 to March 67 he fought Chuvalo, Cooper, London, Mildenburger, Williams, Terrell and Folley. That's 7 defences in 1 year.