The Quality of Marciano's Opponents

Holmes had an excuse for literally every one of his losses or subpar performances.

 

Born, raised and confirmed, bro. I was an altar boy to boot. I get to say my peace on the Holy Church of Rome.

You go defend it.

Now this thread is really going places!

 

overly generous. Larry would have needed to beat somebody like Biggs or Tubbs to match what Louis had been up to in the months before facing Rocky. Without that Larry is practically a dead man walking.

only if he had some tune up fights. Without the tune up fights what is there to go on? Larry showed utterly nothing against Tyson because all he did was tie Mike up. Soon as he tried some open boxing Larry was sparked out. Barely landed a blow.

Everyone looked awful against Marciano because he was so horrible to fight. The first fight Louis had with Arturo Gody (also trained by Charlie Goldman) was just as horrible. Difference was Godoy didn’t get to nail Louis like Ricky did.

of course Louis looked horrible in relation to his championship years. If You are comparing Louis to his championship years at least compare his performance with a similar styled opponent like Arturo Godoy.

The trouble is you have to understand boxing and actually study film to appreciate what you correctly say here. The problem is a lot of folks on here don’t have that knowledge. They just like watching guys being beat up and pretending to understand it enough to argue over it on the internet.

Absolutely. Savold needs taken at face value. His status at the point of that fight. A veteran contender, just outside of a champions level, who finally made it to the high point of his career. A win over Savold at that time should be regarded as a decent win. By a still capable contender. Which it was.

 

I left out Bivins for the same reason I left out Brion,because it was a good win.
Savold's best wins are over.
Nova 42
Franklin 43 x2
Nova 43
Baksi 44 sd He lost both rematches
Dorazio44.
He and Godoy were thrown out for not trying in 46
Savold beat Woodcock on a cut eye.Woodcock had been badly beaten by Baksi and was virtually blind in his left eye.

Woodcock's world came crashing down when he fought Joe Baksi in 1947. He was floored with the first punch, and today the flickering tape bears terrible witness to his immense bravery. Woodcock's punishment lasted 20 minutes, described by the contemporary Weekly Sporting Review as "seven of the most wicked and vicious rounds ever endured by any fighter, any time, anywhere".

He remembered the horror only too well. "My legs, arms, head, all seemed to be leaving me. I couldn't see properly. The whole vast arena seemed to be swimming round me in a crazy whirlpool of lights. I lost all sense of balance and distance, all count of time."

His jaw was broken, he had a detached retina in his left eye, yet in the autumn of 1948, he returned with a bloodless victory over the American Lee Oma and then in December won again when Lee Savold was disqualified for hitting him low.
Oma went into the tank and he later admitted it.
.

The year before Savold got his win over Woodock he could only draw with journeyman Ted Lowry.The ludicrous decision by the BBBOC to recognize the winner of Woodcok v Savold as the Worlds Champion when everyone knew Charles was the REAL Champ is brought up every single time as proof that Louis' win over Savold was some noteworthy victory,and consequently Marciano beating Savold in his next and last fight is also a triumph .
It's actually sickening to see the hypocritical overating of Savold at this point in his career and in doing so portraying Louis' win as great,and by extension Marciano's.
Savold was one fight away from being having his licence taken away for his own good!

"Rocky Marciano Belts Lee Savold Into Retirement"

A fighter has to have his annuities paid up before going against Rocky Marciano.

Marciano, the hard punching heavyweight from Brockton, Mass., not only beats his opponents into bloody submission, but he sends them scurrying for a rocking chair and retirement.

Like Wednesday night when to all intent and purposes he ended the career of the veteran Lee Savold. It is no exaggeration to say that Marciano slaughtered Savold. The 35-year-old Englewood, N. J., fighter was a blood-soaked hulk when his manager, Bill Daly, asked Referee Pete Tomasso to stop the uneven match at the end of the sixth round.

"The will was there but not the body," said Daly. "I'm going to advise Lee to retire from the ring tomorrow."

John (Ox) DaGrosa, Pennsylvania state athletic commissioner, said he was going to suspend Savold indefinitely and ask him to retire.

Savold never had a chance. The unbeaten Marciano charged across the ring from the first bell, smashed two tremendous left hooks into Savold's face and then unmercifully cut down his bigger opponent. Marciano weighed 186½ and Savold 200. The announced attendance was 9,243 and the gate a disappointing $61,386.

Wherever the F Savold was ranked he was never more than a fringe contender whose best wins had occurred in the early 40's.he beat Woodcock in1950! Woodcock would have one more fight get stopped because of his bad eye and retire.
One word covers this dishonesty.
AGENDA

 

I think Walcott v Charles was a better pairing, but the selection of the EBU and BBBC of Savold v Woodcock was not as ludicrous as you might think.

“The knockout of Buonvino coupled with two more wins over lesser foes boosted Savold to #3 behind Ezzard Charles and Jersey Joe Walcott in The Ringmagazine ratings. Savold maintained that placement after he went to London and lost by disqualification to Bruce Woodcock in what would be the first of their two meetings.

The newly-formed International Boxing Club, of which Joe Louis was ostensibly a partner, had the blessing of the National Boxing Association when it decreed that Jersey Joe Walcott and Ezzard Charles would fight for the vacant title. This wasn’t an attractive pairing. Jersey Joe had lost 15 of his 58 pro fights and was considered past his prime. Ezzard Charles was a solid technician but he was colorless and he wasn’t a full-fledged heavyweight. He had never entered the ring carrying more than 180 pounds.

This edict didn’t go over well in Great Britain where boxing was enjoying a post-war boom. The poohbahs at the British Boxing Board of Control felt snubbed. Undoubtedly at the urging of London promoter Jack Solomons, Mr. Big in British boxing, they decided to recognize the winner of the forthcoming match between Bruce Woodcock and Savold as the world heavyweight champion. The European Boxing Union sided with them.”

“When the folks at the BBBofC decided that they would not kowtow to American interests in naming a successor to Joe Louis, which ruled out Ezzard Charles and Jersey Joe Walcott, Woodcock and the highly-rated Savold were the logical picks to fight for the vacant title.”

 

I've 7 Books on this period.

 

Nuke the Vatican?

 

Then you should accept that Walcott, Charles, Savold and Woodcock were the choice of top men to succeed Joe Louis.

Louis came back and challenged the NBA champ Charles and lost, then he challenged the EBU and BBBOC world champ Savold and won. He could not have aimed higher.

Had Louis defeated Marciano (as he was expected to do) he would have fought Charles successor Walcott.

 

Holmes had a game plan which was evident against a much more dynamic offensive fighter in Tyson - whom possessed far greater hand and foot speed than Marciano. Those attributes made it harder for Holmes to open up. Louis just looked like a zombie.
I also disagree that everyone looks awful vs Rocky I think Walcott looks good as does Charles and Moore. Only Louis looks horrible. Which is because he was completely shot and never fought again.

 

Woodcock was never a world class fighter and his name meant nothing in the US Savold was never champion of anything despite Jack Solomons and now your BS.
"Savold was 35 and there didn't seem to be much bounce in him.
I had seen him fight twice in the winter of 46 ,and I knew he wasn't much.
Both bouts had been against a young heavyweight named Al Hoosman,a tall skinny fellow just out of the Army.Hoosman had started well the first time,but Savold had hurt him with body punches and won the decision.
The second time Hoosman had jabbed him silly.
An old third rater like Savold,I knew doesn't improve with 5 more years on him."
"Louis didnt have to chase Savold and he had no reason to run away form him either,so the stiff legs were alright too.
Then he threw a right to Louis' head and it landed.
I thought I could see Louis shrink as if he feared trouble.
His response ten years ago would have been to tear right back into the man.
Savold threw another right,exactly the same kind and that hit Louis too.
No good fighter should have been hit twice in succession with that kind of foolish punch.
But the punches weren't hard enough to slow Louis down,and that was the end of that.
In the third minute of the 6th round,he hit Savold with a couple of combinations no harder than those that had gone before,but Savold was weak now.
His legs were going limp,and Louis was pursuing him,as he backed towards myside of the ring.
The Louis swung like an axman with his right,[he wasn't snapping it as he used to,]and his left dropped over Savold's guard,and the fellow was rolling over on the mat." A J Liebling The Sweet Science.,and you didn't need to be a wonder to beat him.
All this shameless boosting of Savold and by projection Louis and Marciano is nauseating and hypocritical.

 

Louis looks fine against Agramonte? BS! He looks ****! The Cuban was in the process of losing 13 of his next 20 fights before retiring

 

Okay. Here are other excerpts from A J Liebling, The Sweet Science

"One reminded me that I had seen the first boxing show ever held at Yankee stadium--on May 23, 1923."

"I found that I could still remember every man and every bout on that card. One bout was between old Jess Willard, the former heavyweight champion of the world, who had lost the title to Jack Dempsey in 1919, and a young heavyweight named Floyd Johnson. Willard had been coaxed from retirement to make a comeback, because there was such a dearth of heavyweight material that Rickard thought he could still get by, but as I remember the old fellow, he couldn't fight a lick. He had a fair left jab and a right uppercut that a fellow had to walk into to get hurt by, and he was big and soft."

"The other main event had Luis Angel Firpo opposing a fellow named Jack McAuliffe II who had only had 15 fights and had never beaten anybody and had a glass jaw. The two winners, of whose identity there was infinitesimal preliminary doubt, were to fight each other for the right to meet the great Jack Dempsey. Firpo was so crude that Marciano would be a fancy dan in comparison. He could hit with only one hand--his right--he hadn't the faintest idea of what to do in close, and never cared for the business anyway. He knocked McAuliffe out, of course, and then, in a later 'elimination' bout, stopped poor old Willard. He subsequently became a legend by going one and a half sensational rounds with Dempsey, in a time now represented as the golden age of American pugilism."

"I reflected with satisfaction that old Ahab Moore would have whipped all four principals on that card within fifteen rounds, and that while Dempsey may have been a great champion, he had less to beat than Marciano. I felt the satisfaction because it proved that the world isn't going backward, if you can just stay young enough to remember what it was really like when you were really young.

"dearth of heavyweight material"

Of course two of the best, Harry Wills and George Godfrey, were nixed by the color line.

"who had only fifteen fights and had never beaten anybody"

Sounds like a Larry Holmes defense.

 

No, the difference was against Godoy Louis was 25 ,and against Marciano he was 37!

 

The Cuban was in some tough fights. One tough hombre. Always came to fight