What would have happened if Cassius Clay (Muhammad Ali) had quit vs Sonny Liston?

He would have been dismissed as a flake and there would never have been a Muhammad Ali.

 

Evidently Ali's stock takes a temporary dive.

However I don't think that would have ruined his career. Ali was way too good to be denied by a single failed bout.

Soon or later Ali would get a new chance versus Liston and things would play like they did in the real time line: Ali wastes Liston, becomes world champion and goes on building his legacy.

Furthernore, we need to remember the 2nd fight with Liston in RL was a mess with the "ghost punch" controversy.

In this alternative timeline there is no "ghost punch". In the rematch we would have a very angry and motivated Ali facing an even older and more tired Liston, thus I don't discount Ali demolishing Liston in an instant classic.

 

It would've completely killed his image and his power as a draw and I see his career nose diving after that. That said he had one of the best trainers in his corner, who wouldn't let him quit. This was a perfect example how vital an experienced chief second is.

Here is a piece talking about Angelo's experience in keeping his fighters from quitting in important fights

When Angelo Dundee shoved Cassius Clay off his stool and forced him to go out and win the world heavyweight championship, it wasn't the first time the little trainer has egged a reluctant fighter on to victory.

'I've had to push them out into the ring many times." the corner craftsman said Friday.

"As you work with a fighter in training, you find out the best way to get through to him If he wants to quit when he shouldn't, you've got to act fast. Some you reach with abuse, some with kindness, some with gimmicks."

Cassius Blinded

Clay, blinded by a caustic substance in his eyes, pleaded with Dundee after the fourth round of his fight with Sonny Liston last month to cut off his gloves and end it.

Dundee appealed quickly to the ego of the man who actually claimed himself "The Greatest".

"You can't quit now" he shouted. "This is the big one". This is the one that puts us on top of the world."

As the bell rang, Dundee jerked the stool from under Clay and pushed him into the ring.

Blinking from the pain in his eyes Clay back-pedaled until his sight was restored. He eventually won by a technical knockout when Liston failed to answer the bell for the seventh.

Needled Valdes

"I could have been wrong Dundee said. "I might have sent the kid out there to be flattened. But you have to make snap judgments at a time like this.

There is the story when the Cuban heavyweight, Nino Valdes, wanted to throw in the towel during a fight with Ezzard Charles at Miami Beach in 1953. Dundee got him off the stool by sticking a pin in him. And Valdes went on to an upset victory.

Beat Satterfield, Charles

That was just a figure of speech," Dundee said. "What I did was give him the needle - you know what I mean. We had to badger him - in Spanish - and push him out every round."

Dundee once took over heavyweight Johnny Holman when his backers were about to retire him as a washed-up fighter.

"I revitalized him a little bit." Dundee recalls. "Then I put him in against Bob Satterfield. It was a big job getting him up for that one because Satterfield knocked him out twice before. But Holman won by a kayo in eight.

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A good proposition for a hypothetical. It’s hard to separate what we know happened with Ali vs him as a fairly lightly-regarded kid quitting on his stool, with none of his past results behind him to lean on. I can imagine an already contemptuous public in many parts really taking a hard lean against him. There would, of course, be Ali’s outcries of intentional blinding, & Liston wasn’t exactly popular with the established powers himself. Moreover, though Ali’s exceptional showmanship would work to at least some degree to keep him in the Heavyweight picture, the main thing he had going for him is that he’d get back to winning, & keep winning, until either an even older & even stronger Ali met an older & more vulnerable Liston than the ones in ’64, with predictable results, or someone else became Champion, none of whom would’ve been able to best Ali.

My best guess is the cream rises eventually, but I suppose it’s possible that such an obnoxious braggart quitting on his stool might have ruined his career.

 

If Ali maintained foul play (even after he knew better), it might’ve garnered sympathy from those who didn’t want Liston as Champion and those who might’ve also believed that Liston did in fact cheat, deliberately blinding Ali.

Ali’s stunning performance over the first 4 rounds could not be easily dismissed and Ali couldn’t be so easily be deduced to a pretender.

Ali would’ve gone on to beat other contenders to work his way back and reinstall any confidence in him that might’ve been lost.

Otherwise, the controversy of Ali’s claim of being blinded might’ve been enough to induce Liston to grant a rematch.

Ali was doing fine through 4 rounds - well in defiance of the odds, - so no apparent reason whatsoever to quit unless something genuine and extraordinary was up - which it was, in so far as the inadvertent transfer of a caustic solution into Ali’s eyes.

What if we retain Ali coming out for round 5 as he did in reality, but ramp up the severity of the “blinding” - so much so, that it actually caused sufficient visual impairment to see Ali get caught with some truly big shots and KO’d?

Now that would’ve been somewhat hard to come back from - not impossible but a major set back and Ali might not have been afforded as much sympathy for claiming foul play after the fact.

 

Good one pug
How I see it too, mate.

 

Yes,the young Cassius Clay would temporarily suffer a credibility dive and a relieved Liston would do his best to avoid any rematch. Cassius would rebuild his career and reputation with victories over top contenders and would corner Liston's team into a rematch sometime in 1965. This time a motivated Cassius/Muhammad wins handily. And at long last many would start to sympathise with his reasons for quitting the first fight.

 

People would remember him as only the prettiest, fastest heavyweight that ever existed. And they would still be envious of him. For his prettiness and his speed. But that would be it and that would just have to be enough.